tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post2560718357267924238..comments2024-02-16T07:42:10.015-06:00Comments on SKEPTIC REFLECTIONS: A FEW PERSISTENT QUESTIONSJOHN PHILLIPShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06357524637192990158noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-61351193158851985722017-01-25T07:03:01.952-06:002017-01-25T07:03:01.952-06:00Steve, I especially appreciate your comment regard...Steve, I especially appreciate your comment regarding the role of metaphor, particularly in the salvation story.JOHN PHILLIPShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357524637192990158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-70550751309736195852017-01-25T06:41:55.817-06:002017-01-25T06:41:55.817-06:00Thanks, John. I too am afraid to live in a world ...Thanks, John. I too am afraid to live in a world where people (most recently, the electorate) behave as if there are no facts. I've heard this idea offered by some otherwise bright people as justification for believing in God. I do think religion has done much to make this notion seem legitimate. "Well, we can really never know anything, so why not believe in God?"<br /><br />On your point about the lack of logic in the salvation story, I agree. Humans seem to have a fondness for metaphor---even bad metaphor. As a way of understanding something, metaphor can be useful, but only if it is strictly constructed to evoke an underlying reality. The salvation story strikes me as a free-floating metaphor---an attempt to suggest an underlying reality that stands up to no logic or evidence. It's pretty much what we'd expect from a thoroughly human endeavor, but not from any divine source.Steven Spruillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427161024814512042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-15457113837641157502017-01-24T20:31:36.573-06:002017-01-24T20:31:36.573-06:00Dennise,
First, thanks for your words about my ph...Dennise,<br /><br />First, thanks for your words about my photo blog. <br /><br />As to the Salvation Story, perhaps I wasn’t as clear as I thought. Let me suggest the following alternative narrative that would seem more rational to me. Let’s assume there was a God who created humanity with free will and that humans screwed things up, like Genesis seems to state. What might have made more sense would have been for God to say, “OK, let’s just have a ‘do-over.’ I will give humans a second chance to live good, moral lives. If they do, then they can have great, essentially pain-free lives. If they don’t, then they could live fairly miserable lives and when it’s over, it’s over. But I will make clear to them the4 choices and consequences, so they can act rationally.” That would have been rational. <br /><br />But that’s not how the story goes. For some reason, God did not just do a do-over (although he supposedly cut down the human population to some 8 people in the flood). Instead, he created a narrative where Christ, as another member of the godhead, took on human form, lived a perfect life, was killed, and rose from the dead. And THOSE were supposed to be the events that allowed us to be granted salvation and eternal life. Provided, of course, that we swore allegiance to God and chose to believe the Christ story, which, by the way, is far-fetched from a rational point of view (virgin birth, perfect life, resurrection from the dead). What is the logic behind that narrative?? That is what I can’t understand. When we were growing up, we were taught this as dogma and never questioned it. But at some point I just stood up and thought, How does that even make sense? <br /><br />In short, there is nothing illogical in the idea that a creator would want his human creations to live moral lives and to be rewarded for doing so. The problem comes in when he and his colleague arrange for the colleague to come down to earth, etc. What does that have to do with arranging for human welfare or even salvation? Answer: Nothing. What if Christ had decided not to come down to earth or to allow himself to be crucified? What would God have done? Would that had nixed the salvation plan?<br /><br />By the way, I don’t mind people quoting scripture. It’s part of our culture, just as Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Voltaire, etc., etc. are part of our culture. The problem occurs when scripture is considered infallible. JOHN PHILLIPShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357524637192990158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-40256988119166329782017-01-24T17:47:17.044-06:002017-01-24T17:47:17.044-06:00Have enjoyed the pictures you post on FB John!
I&...Have enjoyed the pictures you post on FB John!<br />I'll take a stab at commenting on your blog - I'm addressing primarily # 3.I don't see the "Supreme Jewel" of Christ's coming, living, dying, & resurrection as a means of "convincing" God about anything. I don't think God needed convincing...because his goal was to have us in communion with Him as soon as we reached cognition. Whether we "evolved" [which seems likely] or were created outright, an opportunity for me as a mortal to experience eternal life and have His Spirit in me is quite wonderful . If indeed we evolved, and are just a step above the apes, I find it amazing God would be willing to offer us such a deal, and in agreement with you John - it doesn't make sense! But He did, for which I am thankful. Jesus was able to offer a solution to our very human predicament: our flaws, illnesses, pain, our hurting/ damaging others and the hurts/damage we experience, and inevitability of death. Not just his death - but his incarnation - his resurrection -his whole life in 1st century Palestine was a significant out-pouring of Gods desire to love us and be with us. Whether we evolved or came abt. by a special act of creation the outcome is the same - life can be a "bitch" [or variations on that theme] and then we die. He cared from the very "start" and wanted us to know He was with us. <br />John, your discussion on who Jesus was, is topic of discussion among the peoples of the world today just as it was among Jewish people of his day, even to the point where Jesus asked his disciples, "Whom do people say that I am?" [Yes I'm going to quote scripture - your pet peeve] Answers were "Elijah, John the Baptist, other prophets" [and of course -not mentioned in this particular discourse, that Jesus was a blasphemer, a false prophet, a madman] He point blank asks them - "But whom do you say that I am?" Peter confessed that He was the "Christ"[Messiah]. Jesus himself rejected the role people would push on him- that of saving the people from Roman rule and what his own disciples so easily wanted to portray Him as.. He said of himself:<br />"My kingdom is not of this earth."<br />"I came to seek and save the lost"; <br />" I came not to be minister to, but to minister , to give my life as a ransom for many";<br /> "If you hear me, you hear the Father"; <br />"I came that you would have life and have it more abundantly" <br />"I came not to call the righteous to repentance but the sinner"<br />"I came to bear witness to the truth"<br />" I came from heaven not to do my will but the will of Him who sent me"<br />"For Judgment I came into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind"<br />"I came not to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill it"<br />"if the world hates you keep in mind it hated me first."<br />And of course good ole John 3:16! <br />Finally, he called his disciples then and now to go into all the world, make disciples , baptize them, teaching them to obey what Jesus spoke of. <br /><br />Blessings to you and yours<br />Dennise H.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-42449512618361452732017-01-24T16:06:38.514-06:002017-01-24T16:06:38.514-06:00Thanks, Steve.
I, too, am concerned with how ot...Thanks, Steve. <br /><br />I, too, am concerned with how others evaluate evidence, why some types of evidence should garner more respect than other types. Historically, I have been most concerned with types and qualities of evidence in the realm of religious belief, but more recently I have become concerned with this issue in the political arena. And I am becoming frightened. JOHN PHILLIPShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357524637192990158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-85475073674131815952017-01-24T15:09:34.393-06:002017-01-24T15:09:34.393-06:00Another excellent essay, John. Our growing knowle...Another excellent essay, John. Our growing knowledge of the universe and of science should serve as a powerful antidote to the grand delusions of centrality that arose naturally when mankind knew much less. I'm concerned that we've entered an age where facts don't matter to a lot of people. I haven't figured out what could be done about that at this point. How do we get anyone to care what is true when people would rather believe, which is easy, than find out, which takes some work?Steven Spruillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427161024814512042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7251693339364322895.post-27346385548350865192017-01-10T13:08:18.313-06:002017-01-10T13:08:18.313-06:00Hello John,
I am interested in purchasing the rig...Hello John, <br />I am interested in purchasing the rights to your photographs of arabian library. Can you please message me at kwoods@richard-bauer.com. <br />Thank you! <br />Katie Katie Woodshttp://richard-bauer.comnoreply@blogger.com